Rebroadcast • Storytelling for Social Justice

Jul 13

About This Episode

November 17-19, 2022, thousands of people gathered for Facing Race: A National Conference, produced by Race Forward, to explore new and powerful ways to advance racial justice. It is, in a word, extraordinary in the way this conference offers advocates of all stripes to connect, to learn, and to love the work we all do, in our own ways, furthering the conversations of racial justice together.

In the lead-up to the conference, we hosted our own forum with two very special people in our lives — and in the conference itself. What you're about to hear is a conversation with Glenn Harris, President of Race Forward and host of the Facing Race Conference, and Ashton Lattimore, editor-in-chief of Prism, a valued partner in this year's conference.

This is a timely conversation, not just for its proximity to the conference itself, but for its resonance to the public discourse. We're in the run-up to another election in a contentious political environment. How do we find hope and possibility in the face of what we have lost through division and partisanship? How do we remember the value of speaking truth to power with love in the face of eroding rights in this country? How do we confront the disenfranchisement of public education and the inequality of our efforts in climate legislation with strength, compassion, and faith that people of good will, will do good things?

We don't offer answers in this episode. But we hope that our efforts to showcase these voices and perspectives, voices of two people we believe offer good faith and goodwill in a marketplace of communication challenged by both, can give you a glimpse of how you might mount your own efforts for advocacy, and find a little hope in a brighter future, too.

Our deepest thanks to Glenn Harris and Ashton Lattimore for joining us this week.

Carrie Fox:
Welcome to Mission Forward. I'm your host, Carrie Fox. Before we get started in today's show, I want to give a quick setup to the very special conversation that's about to unfold. Now here at Mission Forward, our goal is to produce thought provoking and actionable content about the power of communications.
Our interviews often explore the intersecting issues of business, love and justice. And today's conversation is a perfect example of that. Now, recently I had a chance to sit down with Glen Harris, CEO of Race Forward and Ashton Lattimore, Editor in Chief of Prism. I asked them about the state of our nation in the lead up to this election day, what they are seeing on the horizon for the racial justice movement and how each one of us can play a part in advancing justice. Whether we consider ourselves organizers or not, progressives or otherwise.
This is an incredible conversation and I am glad to share it here with you. Enjoying? And if you like what you hear, drop us a rating or a review and check out missionforward.us for more episodes like this one. Thanks, and I'll see you on the other side.
This November 17th through 19th, thousands of people will gather for the Annual Facing Race Conference. And in doing so, we'll explore new and powerful ways to advance the racial justice movement. In the lead up to this year's conference, we have coordinated a very special opportunity for you to join me for a conversation between Glenn Harris, President of Race Forward and host of the Facing Race Conference. And Ashton Lattimore, editor in chief of Prism, a partner in this year's conference. Glenn and Ashton have each taken unique pathways to influence and advance racial justice, and this conversation will give you an opportunity to better understand firsthand how they interpret and understand where the movement for racial justice is, where it is going, and how each one of us can keep the movement moving forward.
So for the next 30 minutes or so, I invite you to join me as we listen in and learn from Ashton and Glenn. We'll explore where we are as a nation, where we are going toward that shared vision of a more equitable and inclusive democracy. Glenn and Ashton, thanks for being with me today. Great

Glenn Harris:
Great to be here.

Carrie Fox:
Thanks for having us. So Glenn, why don't we turn to you first, give us a little preview. What can we expect coming up later in this November at the conference.

Glenn Harris:
Facing Race is one of my favorite events. If you've been before, You know it's a home outing. It's the reunion of folks who have been working on racial justice across the country for, now decades. If you haven't been before, you're in for I think quite a treat. Our keynote speaker this year is Dr. Edith Canby. We have multiple plenary sessions over the course of three days. There's over a hundred working sessions for folks to participate on from everything, from thinking about racial equity and policy making to thinking about racial equity and arts and culture to wrestling with questions of narrative and institutional change. So it's broad, but the best part of it is being in relationship in community with people who share your values and hopes in them. And so if you haven't had a chance to register, I hope you do, I hope you'll join us. They're going to be in Phoenix, which is perfect for November.

Carrie Fox:
And for folks who can't be there in person? Glenn, is there a virtual component this year?

Glenn Harris:
We are doing both in person and virtual. So please do feel free to sign up virtually as well and join us.

Carrie Fox:
All right. And we will share all of the links for folks who are listening so that you all can attend. And then we are also here with Ashton and listeners of this podcast have had a chance to learn a little bit about Ashton, and I'm glad to have you back. Ashton Lattimore, Editor in Chief of Prism. But let me give you just a quick opening too. Why are you connected with the Facing Race Conference this year?

Ashton Lattimore:
Prism's really excited to be partnering with the Facing Race Conference this year. So much of the work of Facing Race and Race Forward is really just of a piece with the social movements that Prism spends so much of our time examining, covering, helping to amplify. So we're just really excited to be part of this broader conversation about the current state of racial justice in the United States and where we're headed from here.

Carrie Fox:
All right, so there's a lot more to look forward to in the coming weeks, but as you both know, we are going to get right into some big conversations today. And let me lay out the first topic and then I'm just going to toss it out and see who wants to take this first one.
What I love about both of you, is you both care so deeply about how and why the United States is falling short on so many issues of injustice. And yet you both have an optimism and hope for how you go about your work. That you see and deeply believe in the innovative and historically informed and radical ways that communities are working toward a more just future. Even on the days that I know it feels hard. But I would love for each one of you to tell me a bit about what you see and why you believe in this work so deeply?

Ashton Lattimore:
To be candid, I see a lot of cause for alarm, but a lot of cause for optimism. At the same time, as somebody who of came of age in the Obama era and under that administration. I think we all saw what looked like a tremendous leap forward for race relations and racial justice, at least in the sphere of politics at its highest level. Having seen that and then seen what's come next in response to that kind of very strong, deeply rooted backlash that has come since that moment that you've seen, kind of accelerated under the former President Trump. And accelerated by a lot of the more reactionary forces that have come into play since then.
I don't think, is terribly surprising. Just based on what we know about history. We know from the Civil Rights Movement, we know from the Civil War that when you have these great leaps forward, there's always that backlash, that push, that pendulum swing backwards. But I think kind of having that historical background and knowing what's happening now is very disheartening, but it's not unusual. For me, it gives me some cause to hope that just as we've come through these kinds of moments before with organizing, with grassroots movements, there's a way that we can kind of harness the energy of this moment and do the same now. And that's a lot of what we're seeing on the ground down through our reporting at Prism.

Glenn Harris:
I so appreciate that Ashton. I think that it seems to me that is the moment we're in. And to your point, Ashton as a country, it's like a moment we decide to do collectively, every 60 or 70 years. Cause we just have never dealt with the core truth of the way in which race and systemic racism. We are bait into our conception of a democracy and I say it all the time, We're not getting to a real democracy without racial justice and we're not getting to racial justice without a real democracy. They're inextricably intertwined, right?
But I do think that there's this historic pattern each time as we think about the reconstruction theories that, Ashton, you were then, in the wake of the Civil War, Civil rights. And I do believe we're in another reconstruction theory and there is always that pushback, but I'm with you. There's always the possibility that we actually might get it right.
And what gives me optimism is same thing as you watch your folks stand up, take a stand, be clear, bring love, all the things that we know actually builds community. But also what really brings, gives me hope is this recognition that it's possible now. Like it's a scary moment, right? This is, change required that always does, this moment of standing on the precipice. You know what I mean? But there's real possibility on the other side of it.
And watching young folks today organize and do their thing it gives me endless hope. And I can't talk about hope without naming, just our ancestors. You know what I mean? You know what I'm saying? As much as I recognize the struggle in front of us is grand. I'm really clear about what my family and my community has done here in this country for the last 400 years, trying to bring about this simple idea of a just multiracial involvement. So I'm with you. I'm cautiously optimistic, I think is maybe the right term.

Ashton Lattimore:
I'm so grateful to hear you bring the notion of our ancestors into this because the very reason we're not starting from zero is because we have that 400 years of progress to build upon. And that means that at this moment, which is a scary moment, and we're on the precipice, just like you said.
At the same time, people of color have access to the levers of power and levers of influence in ways that we never have had before. And I think you can see that even in some of the discourse that's happening in this particular moment, which is so much more sophisticated and systemic and forward looking than I think what we've seen previously. So it's really actually very exciting. It is.

Carrie Fox:
So let's pick up on this momentum. And Glenn, I love what you said, the possibility of getting it right. Just sounds so intriguing to me. We are airing this show just a few weeks before an election day. We know that there is another election day, right? Every few years we've got these moments and we know how critically important elections are to that process. What do you see in the near term, that maybe paints that picture of the possibility of getting something right? And what do you hope you see more of in the longer term?

Glenn Harris:
Yeah, it is so hard to, with becoming election to lean into what is that we can get right? It feels like we're bending off more than we're working on getting right. But I do think that as we think about this coming election, the next two years for us as a nation is just a pivotal moment.
We've watched a steady march towards authoritarianism over the last few years. We've seen the court swing hard to the right. We've watched folks literally attack the Capital. We are in a moment that is truly historic. And I think in that way it's easy to not, to be focused on, how do we defend what we have? But it is also a moment in which in the last few years we saw over 25 million people turn out the streets demanding justice for George.
We continue to see folks across the country taking bold stands on the very institutions and ideas of democracy that are under assault. Whether it's protecting women's rights or defending democracy locally.
There's a lot to be optimistic for as we think about where we want to be five years from now, or a decade from. But I think in the next couple of months, you got to get that vote out. We got to make sure that we are doing our best to limit the amount of damage that this kind of extremist right wing reality has brought into the US in the last four years. Piece I want to name is it's not new. And I think in that way, even as we take it seriously, just recognizing this kind of demagoguery is, we were naming it early. It's part of our history of culture. But I do think in this moment being laser focused on how do we make sure at the federal level, we can get the wins or at least prevent some of the losses that would cost us so dearly.
And at the local level? Going all in, it's where we get to practice our democracy, right? It is at our local level, that we get to have hard conversations. And I love with Ashton named, which is what we're trying to build, requires us to be able to have sophisticated conversations, deep conversations, meaningful conversations. And that's not going to be done at the federal level. Most certainly not going to happen on CNN or Fox News.
And so how do we actually get real about investing our time? Even as we're thinking about our voting in this upcoming election. In our local communities in a way that actually makes real what we're all naming. And I guess that's all I'm really trying to say...

Carrie Fox:
Yeah.

Glenn Harris:
... Is that I see just multiracial democracy. I've seen it again and again and again in small towns and big cities across this country. It's possible, it's messy, but it's possible. And we just need to be deeply invested in understanding that the more we can demonstrate that, the less the crazy makes enemies.

Ashton Lattimore:
I agree with so much of that, especially the focus on the local level. And I think recognizing that is part of a much longer game. Yes, we have these immediate sort of urgencies, especially around the federal level, these elections, year 2022, 2024, we can think about those things as harm reduction, kind of protect the gains that we've made and keep us from losing any more. But to some extent, what happened, what has happened at the federal level.
For example, what's happened to the judiciary. That didn't happen overnight, that was a 50, 60, 70 year strategy. And just as these more reactionary right wing forces can play a longer game that ultimately results in some pretty fundamental institutional change. That's the kind of game that we need to be playing as well.
And I do think that that starts at the local level. And I think some of the conversations that I've been starting to hear as we're working toward just multiracial democracy. Really going back and looking at our foundations, our institutions, the way that they're structured, the Constitution, and asking, is this structured appropriately? Do we need an electoral college?Is the constitution? Does that have all of the rights in it that we needed to have? Are some things in there that maybe shouldn't be in there? Do we need a Supreme Court that has the authority to do some of the things that we're doing? Those are the conversations that I'm really starting to see bubble up from the grassroots level and make their way into the mainstream, at least through some media outlets, personally included.
And I think being willing to be bold and confront some of those foundational questions about the way that America came together and whether or not that's the way that we want to continue to try to hold it together, or whether we need to start unraveling some of these institutions and building something different in their place, if we're going to get where we're hoping to get to.

Carrie Fox:
And Ashton, I mean that work that you just outlined requires everyone at every level, Glenn, as you said, right? So I often ask folks, what side of history do you want to be on in any number of issues, right? Whatever you're working on, what side of history do you want to be on? To know that is important. But as I'm thinking about all of the folks who have said, Oh, I'm not an organizer, right? And I don't know where I fit into this work. Everyone is an organizer, right? Everyone has a role to play in thinking about the history we are making in this moment and what the future could look like.

Ashton Lattimore:
That's so true. I think going off of what you said, Carrie. So much of what I hear now is, if you want to know what kind of person you would've been during the Civil Rights movement or during slavery, what would you have been doing? Look at what you're doing right now. Because that's the kind of moment that we are in, collectively as a country.
And I think people need to understand that it is okay, and it's important to have lanes. You can't do everything, but everyone does have a role to play. Myself, I have never been a frontline organizer a day in my life. My gift, my power is, I'm a storyteller. So that's where I choose to direct my energies and how I can use them in this moment to do storytelling that uplifts the stories of communities who are being impacted by injustice and shows the ways that we're all fighting against it.
Somebody else's gift might be something different, but I think everyone understanding that it's necessary and to not try to do everything but know what your role is and what your gift is and figure out how to use it in service of this moment. I think that's really what we need to be directing each person's attention to.

Glenn Harris:
I so appreciate that Ashton, I think we were, we're talking to, this comes every 60 or 70 years, because in fact we are literally still founding. That, for me, I always find inspiring that might spend a lot of time using odd language about founding fathers, et cetera. We're clear, still clearly in the founding space and it means all of us in that way.
That's really exciting, we all get to participate in that. And I think you're right. There's any number of ways to show up and play that role. And one of the things I love about doing this work is, it doesn't matter whether you're talking about at your church, in your community, at your place of work, where you recreate, there's always opportunity to engage in justice.
Getting folks to understand not only, is there the opportunity? But naming your power. And I love what you named Ashton, that in action, is a use of your power.
You don't get to advocate, you get to make a choice about it. And so I do think in that way, really recognizing everybody does have the ability to step up. And I think the last thing I'll say is it's why it's so important that we approach each other in this work with love? Because I have never engaged in anything in my life that someone didn't give me lots of love and support. And that's a challenge in this work. Cause there's plenty to be angry and hurt about, but it's so important to remember that. If we want folks to come with us, remember why we come with other folks. You know what I mean? Got to remember how I got here in doing this work, which was someone took the time to give me the love, the attention and support so that I could do this work.

Carrie Fox:
I appreciate that framing so much. Glenn. And I often hear Edgar Villanueva who wrote 'Decolonizing Wealth' and he was also on the podcast a while back. He talks about speaking truth to power with love. And he always talks about the role that love plays in social change. For that reason, Glenn, right? There's a very different experience that we've had when we are in a fight. And the way that fight can feel, which sometimes is essential and important, and we're going to talk about a fight in a minute. But the other side is how you get into the process of change through love and humanity.

Ashton Lattimore:
I think there's so much to be said for meeting people where they are. And I think media can play an incredibly important role in that and inviting people in to these social movements. Inviting people to understand, but also telling stories that aren't so grand. That don't necessarily start with, somebody led a march of 25 million people or however many people down the streets, but what did they do in their own community and how can you take that and replicate it? Because there are a million different entry points. And I think so much of the work is helping people understand where their own entry points are to this work.

Carrie Fox:
Damn. All right, so then let's talk about that, because there is a strong theme that we see in Prisms coverage and reporting around the Erosion of rights. And Glenn, it's interesting and good perspective to have your reminder that the rights that exist are fairly still new rights. In many cases, those rights haven't been around for very long, but we are already seeing enormous erosion to them from, gender justice voting rights. And so we know there is a fight that needs to be had around where we see that erosion of rights happening. What is giving each one of you the most pause? What are you seeing that requires the most action around this erosion of rights?

Glenn Harris:
So much?

Ashton Lattimore:
I think the one that concerns me the most is voting rights, because that's the right that's going to make sure that you have all of the other rights. That's where we got all of the ones that we have. So to see that one being carefully stripped away, not just at the level of voter suppression.
But now they're looking at ways to strip it away on the back end. Well, all right, we'll let you vote. And if you don't vote the way that we want you to, then we'll just invalidate your vote. I mean, this is a whole kind of multi-pronged strategy basically to entrench minority rule in the United States. And I think that is something that can have a snowball effect as far as the erosion of the rest of the rights that so many of us have come to depend on, have come to cherish over the last however many years.
And that is going to happen in a lot of ways that disproportionately affect communities of color who have come to rely on these rights for our livelihoods, for our equality, and more. So I think that's probably where I have most of my attention focused right now. In terms of what I'm most worried about.

Glenn Harris:
I would echo, absolutely Ashton, and I would echo that. I mean, we just, with the dismantling of Roe v. Wade, we just watched half the population developing a form of decent franchise, right? But I think voting, I think is critical. And I think maybe what I would name is maybe an odd one, is freedom of speech. That is we're watching what's happening in Florida, watching in Texas. Now in 20 something states in the union where folks are either moving or have passed legislation in which you can't actually say racial justice. In which, you're banning literally, books and children's books.
That threat, I think is just growing. We'll be at our peril not to pay attention to how real that threat could become. I don't think we've seen anything along these lines since the McCarthyism. Never like to be alarmist, but also think it's important that we are clear about what's in front of us and deeply believe that. That ourself, on our ability to have honest conversation, real conversation, is maybe the greatest threat we're facing in the next three to four years. I will say, that the mere fact that we are naming that in this moment, I think is an important reminder that we win when we have these conversations. That's like, on one hand I see it as a serious threat, and on the other hand, I'm really clear when your opposition, they're only strategy is to make sure you can't vote and you can't talk about the issues. And they know they'll lose. You know what I'm saying?

Ashton Lattimore:
Yep. That's a dead giveaway. It's a dead giveaway every time. The power of story, the power of truth, the power of narrative setting and narrative shifting, which I think is part of why this erosion of the right to free speech is happening.
Because over the last however many years, probably 10 to 15 years, it's accelerated. It's become so much easier for people to learn about our country's history, to learn about different kinds of people, to learn about what's happening in other parts of the world. Because there are so many different ways to get that message out. You know, can ban all the books in schools that you want to, but your kids probably still have TikTok, they're probably still on Twitter.
There are a million different ways for people to reach one another. And as many times as that's been used for ill, I think it's incredibly powerful. So for those of us who are focused on racial justice and other social justice movements, recognizing that part of the reason our speech is being targeted is because it's so powerful, I think is incredibly important.

Carrie Fox:
All right, so let's dig into this. We had wanted to spend a little time talking about education justice, and you have teed us up to go right there. The possibilities, right? So what is happening at the K to 12 education level? The possibilities for change to advance more just communities.
It's enormous, right? And we know how much of it starts there, how young minds are shaped through those educational experiences. But so too can be the harms associated with how education is delivered. So if we were to think about one of these, right? The greatest issue, the erosion of our rights and what we see in terms of the challenges of free speech in our schools. What role is education playing, or can it play in the anti-racist moment that we are in?

Glenn Harris:
I don't think there's anything more important. Ash was naming earlier the 70 year march to control of the Supreme Court. There's been a 70 year march to privatize the public school system. You need to pay attention. You know what I'm saying? It's Important you connect the dots, because the truth is, public schools are essential to a functioning democracy. It's how we learn democratic practice, and it's how we get to know our neighbors. It's how we come to understand difference. It's all of those things.
And without it, you actually really deeply undermine people's ability to participate, to understand, to find common cause. I think all of those pieces, and we have a project 'Heal Together', Honest Education Action and Leadership, which is really trying to push back on the attacks that are happening at the public's school level right now.
And really recognizing, again, you were naming this earlier, but how important engaging in these struggles locally are? How essential it is? That is, we're thinking about our loss of rights, that we demonstrate our rights in person with each other. So I think in that way, education, in of itself is primary institution of a functional democracy. But also in this moment is an opportunity for us to make real. To practice what it is that we're trying to actually bring into them.

Ashton Lattimore:
I'm so glad, Glenn, you brought up this 70 year march to privatize public schools, because I think it does fly under the radar. And I think too often people decouple it from the other things that are happening in schools right now, and they're all part of the same strategy. They're all part of the same structure.
The schools are where we develop our first sense of shared reality. It's where we learn the story of who we are as a country. And if you start breaking people off into silos, into private spaces where some things are allowed to be said and some things are not, that's very similar to sort of the fractured media environment that so many adults are operating right now. Where we simply do not have a shared sense of what this country is? How it came to be? Or what's currently working and not working with it?
So there's something incredibly important about keeping these schools as a place where multiple pieces of a community, different people from different communities are coming together and develop, developing a shared national identity and a shared national understanding of what this is and what is our national project.
I'm deeply alarmed by a lot of what's happening on these public schools right now, you know? From a mother, I have a five year old and a three year old. So I'm just at the beginning of our public school journey, and just seeing, part of what I see is all of the different ways to get involved, right?
There are so many Facebook groups already that I'm getting invited to. Come to the school board meeting, come talk to the school board about this, come volunteer in the library. And I think that's useful, because that again, offers people entry points into what is really a foundational kind of site of civic participation. So I think, for anybody, parent or otherwise, who's looking for ways to get involved in fights for Racial Justice or other forms of social justice, including protecting free speech rights, the schools are an incredibly potent place to start.

Carrie Fox:
I reinforce that. And quick story, just that I want to share with the two of you quickly, which is, my daughter who's now 12. My daughter and I wrote a book together a few years ago called Adventures and Kindness. And she, it was her idea to write this book after she was listening to some remarks that then President Trump had made. And she looked at me and she said, How did a position in power get to be so mean? Or person in power get to be so mean? And we decided that if that didn't sit well with her, and it didn't, then we were going to do our best to put the opposite out into the world. And for her, that was kindness. And so we created a book where kids could practice kindness, a new adventure every week. And the book has really been taken up by many school districts across the country.
Just last week, one of those school districts called us and they said, We'd like to be able to continue to use this, but we're going to need to have you reprint it without adventure 52, because that's the adventure that talks about gender pronouns.
And how heartbreaking that was, right? I mean, Ashton, I can see you, how heartbreaking that was for the kids in that school district who are being told to practice kindness, but they can only practice it in certain ways. And so its, are we in, right? What do we stand for? As a country, as a school system, as elected leaders on the local level and the federal level? What do we stand for? If we are deeply committed to love and kindness and justice, then we have to be able to see that through. And it's the polarities of this work that I find interesting.

Ashton Lattimore:
That's heartbreaking. That is such a heartbreaking story. That also calls to mind, for me, especially in the world of education. What we need to see is a bit more bravery, because what I'm hearing in that story is some school officials who coiled in response to a complaint from some probably small, probably quite small subset of parents, maybe, well funded by a reactionary group. But probably, a group of people who are not representative of what the vast majority of the community would want to promote in terms of kindness.
So I think looking for opportunities for people to really exercise that bravery muscle where, if somebody asks you to do something terrible, like ban a book, perhaps consider saying no. Like that's a small place to start.

Carrie Fox:
All right, so let's move on from education justice to what might end up being our last topic of the day, wherever it takes us. And that's climate justice. So Glenn, for your knowledge and also for those listening. Prism recently launched a super cool partnership with people over plastic. And they are now, they now have a podcast series, where they are sharing stories of environmental justice.
And they are designed to power this vision of an anti-racist future that we all agree and share on. What do you each see? And Glenn, feel free to take this one first if you want, though. I'll give you a minute to decide. What do you see that's working well in support of climate justice? And what do you hope continues to take center stage in the year ahead?

Glenn Harris:
I actually am so impressed by the narrative work around climate. I feel like that there's so much that's being really thoughtfully put out about why climate justice matters. From the scientific to just facts, like what the three of the five largest storms in history have happened since, hurricanes have happened since 2017, right? So just classic climate effects, but also this sort of story of how climate impacts black and brown people and low income people.
And well, maybe more, even more exciting. In the Important matter, thinking about Ashton the work that you're now engaged in, the ways in which folks are actually taking control of that story. And so that's the piece for me, looking around the country, seeing, I think all of the innovative ways in which local communities of color, taking on this question and getting real about where there's opportunities for a change.
You made me think of a toolkit that we released a couple years ago called 'From Seeds to Harvest'. And it's about change in government collaborations on developing sustainable and renewable, racially equitable energy climate policies. And so I think in that way, genuinely excited about the kinds of innovations we're seeing at the local level. And having said that, as we all know, we need those things scaled in a fundamental deal.

Ashton Lattimore:
I think the narrative shifting work that Glenn lifted up is so important. Just the storytelling around climate. And I think they're really deep intersectional conversations we've started to have about, how we got here? What's been really exciting for me is seeing people kind of watching the scales fall from their eyes about capitalism as a concept and how that's kind of funneled us directly into many of the practices and the patterns of consumption and land use that have contributed so heavily to climate change.
And seeing people really start to ask deep questions, not just about climate as science, but about the ways that we live our lives and structure our societies. And that's been really exciting. And there's been a lot of that showing up in the storytelling that we're doing at Prism. And what I've seen that I've found really interesting, and it's been a really exciting learning opportunity for me, is learning a lot more about the social movements that walk alongside the climate justice movements.
And in particular, I'm thinking of the LANDBACK movement and how that ties into the question of climate justice, and returning to and reentering indigenous practices of stewarding the land versus exploiting it or taking advantage of it in other ways. So it's really a great opportunity for people to just learn about our world, I think, in a way that, if people are open to it, can be really exciting and also really useful for reframing the ways that we think about what it means to protect our environment.

Carrie Fox:
I just want to pause for a minute, and I know we are coming to the end, but I am having this sense, and I have been since we've started this conversation. But certainly in the last 10 minutes, the sense of overwhelm, listening to the two of you. Not in a bad way, but an incredibly energizing way, of thinking about the work that each of you are doing. But how you think about the work in context, right? How we think about where we are? How you've studied the history of this work? And how you've see the pathways to move forward for change?
And I want to call in someone who I've long admired. Antionette Carroll is the founder of Creative Reaction Lab. And she often says, We are all designers, whether designer is in your title or not, every decision you make is by design, right? Whether intentional or not.
And that, for those who are listening today, comes back to this idea of organizer. You don't have to be an organizer, though, I suspect you are. If you start to think about your actions over the last few years that everything we do is by design. And unfortunately, for the last 400 years, a lot of that design has been set up to limit the true justice of what we can experience in our world, right?
But starting today, starting in this moment, everyone has the power to redesign. And so I appreciate what you, Glenn and Ashton are doing to model what's possible to give us pathways and on ramps to practice this work. And I'm really looking forward, Glenn, to what will happen in a few weeks at Facing Race Conference. Thank you both so much for being with us today. And I'll just turn to you, any parting thoughts before we wrap up?

Glenn Harris:
I just want to say thank you, Carrie, and thank you Ashton. And my, I'll just say my world would be better if I could spend an hour with you all every day, having these conversations. I don't have any doubt about that, and I'm really excited about Facing Race. I hope folks, if you can join us, and looking forward to seeing everyone in November,

Ashton Lattimore:
I'll just concur. I'll conclude with my thanks. Thank you, Carrie, and thank you, Glenn. This conversation has been a really spirit lifting, honestly. It's just, it's really great to just be in conversation with folks too, who have such a forward looking outlook, that's so deeply historically informed about the moment that we're in. And I feel like there's a lot of great work that can come out of a moment like this, and certainly that'll come out of a moment like Facing Race. So I'm also excited for November, and I look forward to seeing everybody there.

Carrie Fox:
Thank you both.
And that brings us to the end of this amazing episode of Mission Forward. Thanks for tuning in today. If you are stewing on what we discussed here today, or if you heard something that's going to stick with you, drop me a line at carrie@mission.partners and let me know what's got you thinking. And if you've got more thoughts for where we should go in future shows, I would love to hear that too. Mission Forward is produced with the support of Sadie Lockhart in association with TruStory FM, Engineering by Pete Wright. If your podcast app allows for ratings and reviews, I hope you will consider doing just that for this show. But the best thing you can do to support Mission Forward is, simply share the show with a friend or colleague. Thanks for your support, and I'll see you next time.