Rebroadcast • Succession Planning with Edgility Consulting's Christina Greenberg

 

About This Episode

This episode is sponsored by Edgility Consulting.

How can leaders of social impact organizations build equitable pipelines of leadership to sustain their missions? That is our central question this week as Carrie Fox sits down with Christina Greenberg, Co-Founder and Managing Partner of diversity-focused talent management firm Edgility Consulting. It’s a question that begs us to examine all our best practices for succession planning and talent development to ensure organizations stay true to their values over time.

When most organizations start planning for succession, it is often too late, Greenberg explains. Succession planning must start years in advance with strategic talent management - identifying core competencies for roles at every level and systematically developing staff. Just as we plan for communications risk scenarios, leaders should have multiple potential successors identified by giving them concrete experiences to demonstrate readiness. With an intentional focus on competency gaps and development areas, organizations can build diverse benches of potential leadership.

How can social impact organizations close skills gaps in order to nurture well-rounded leaders? Where are potential successors today, and what experiences do they need to get them ready? How can succession planning apply to all levels? True succession planning requires looking beyond ego to the future health of the institution and its social mission. As Greenberg says, “What I would just tell people about this process is it’s hard and daunting and scary, but just take it in bite-sized pieces."

We just scratch the surface of Christina’s expertise in nonprofit succession planning and talent development. The bottom line: building an equitable leadership plan for the long term requires leading with values first, and letting the right people with the right skills rise to meet them. Our great thanks to Christina and Edgility Consulting for their partnership in this conversation!

Today's show is brought to you by Edgility Consulting, your compass for building equitable organizations where all staff thrive. Their talent management experts empower you to break free from traditional hiring, compensation, and talent management norms that often perpetuate inequality and prevent you from hiring and retaining great staff.

Put your values to work, act on equity, visit
Edgility Consulting and talk to a consultant about upgrading your talent systems to attract and retain top talent and ensure equity at your organization today.

  • Intro:

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    Welcome to Mission Forward.

    Carrie Fox:

    Hi there and welcome to the Mission Forward podcast, where each week we bring you a thought-provoking and perspective-shifting conversation on the power of communication. I'm Carrie Fox, your host and CEO of Mission Partners. A social impact communications firm and certified B Corporation. And today, I have such a special conversation to share with you. On today's show, we have the thoughtful and purpose-driven co-founder and managing partner of Edgility Consulting, Christina Greenberg. For the past 20 years or so, Christina has worked as a recruiter and a highly skilled one at that. Starting with recruiting and placing school teachers and principals and then leading searches for professionals serving in a range of executive leadership roles, in education, youth development and social justice organizations. I learned of Christina not too long ago through one of my colleagues and after meeting some members of her team, I recognize there was a lot I liked in how she runs her company and her work.

    I'm going to tell you a quick bit about Edgility and then we're going to have Christina tell us a whole lot more. So Edgility was created by Christina and her co-founder, Allison Wyatt. They were previously both independent consultants until they saw an opportunity. They both had a clear vision for how to bring more authentic DEI practices into recruiting and talent management for nonprofits and community-based organizations and realize, and I love this, realize that the impact they wanted to have could in fact be realized if they started an organization from the ground up rather than trying to change the culture of an existing organization. Edgility is a company built on its values and you will hear those values come through loud and clear in my conversation with Christina. We're going to talk about leading through those values. We'll hear from Christina on effective techniques for up-skilling.

    Teams, and we're going to talk about preparing for successful successions too.

    Christina and her team have a clear focused approach to supporting organizations and fostering equity at all levels so that those principles of equity, diversity, and inclusion naturally become principles across the entire company.

    So much to get to today. Christina, I am so glad you're here. Welcome to Mission Forward.

    Christina Greenberg:

    Thank you Carrie. I'm really excited to be here to talk with you. I've loved listening to other episodes of your podcast and love your focus which is so aligned to ours around how we share social impact to the world.

    Carrie Fox:

    Yeah, agreed. Well, tell us more. You probably know how we like to start this show with some stories. Tell us more about what brought you into this work.

    Christina Greenberg:

    Gosh, yeah. It's funny. As someone like me, as I get further and further into my career, 25 plus years in, it's a little bit of a winding story but I'll try to be as concise as I can. I went to college in LA. When I graduated, I thought I was going to be a lawyer. I went to work at what I thought was a one-year job which ended up being less than a one-year job but in the entertainment industry as one does, at twenty-two years old in Los Angeles. I very quickly realized that it was not the place for me that I really wanted to get some more purpose-driven work. And I happened to get on the 1998 campaign of Senator Barbara Boxer, who was my congresswoman growing up and was at that point, running for her first re-election term.

    In addition to meeting my husband on the campaign which is a whole other story we won't go into, I worked there in the finance operation doing development work. After that actually ended up working for Barbra Streisand's Foundation and Political Office doing philanthropy and other social action giving on the part of Ms. Streisand as well supporting some of her writing and op-eds and things like that. And then went back to grad school and policy. And when I left grad school, I tried being a budget analyst which is what all my policy friends were doing, crunching numbers all day long and probably not surprising knowing the previous roles I had, I realized quickly that was not the job for me. And we moved back to California. My husband was a principal. He had gotten a role here and happened to get hooked up with an education organization he knew. And that organization did work for teachers, but most importantly, they helped place teachers in school organizations. And I completely fell in love with recruiting.

    As someone who'd done development fundraising, I have the skills, I've got the external relations and the organization and the stuff that you needed but I was never super excited about bringing in money. I could do it but just bringing in money in and of itself wasn't super exciting, but connecting people, that was my jam. And I found it was a great way to connect my analytical skills which I honed in policy school, as well as my care for people and my interest in matchmaking. And so, I put it all together. After working for teachers, I also worked for an organization called New Leaders which found aspiring principals and placed them in the most low income, highly needed schools across the Bay Area and beyond. And then in 2010, I had my second child. I was trying to figure out what was next.

    I decided to go out on my own for what I thought was just a little while. About a year and a half in, my husband said, "I think this is your job. I think you need to actually acknowledge this is what you're doing." So I built a company, Redwood Circle, a talent management firm where I worked with a number of folks, subcontractors at that point. It was really just me on staff but several of those folks actually are still with us Edgility today. And had been Allison through that process, she and I had done some projects together. And I was trying to think about what was next. I felt I was tired of being by myself but wasn't sure... Was approached by and engaged with some larger firms. And to your point in your intro, what I found was that even though I wanted the idea of partnering with others in the work, I also didn't want to sacrifice the things that were most important to me.

    And when I spoke with Allison, she and I started thinking, "Wow, we could do this together. We could continue making the impact we want to have and not compromise on that end and still run a business that's sustainable and profitable and that makes sense in the world." And we both were very adamant we wanted to be private sector. Having worked in non-profit and philanthropy, we wanted to do it through that lens versus through a foundation grant-making lens. That's how we wanted to... I wanted people to value my work and as if they would pay directly for it and that's how we started Edgility. And I think it's beyond our wildest dreams. We started with the two of us and one full-time person in beginning of 2016. We grew, we were about 13 people going into the pandemic. So in early 2020, we were at 20 plus a year later, and today we're at forty-five folks around the country.

    We're in 20 plus states in terms of where our staff members live. We're working with a couple hundred clients a year and a variety of different projects and some of which are worldwide. It's really exciting. We work with some folks internationally as well as nationally. All of them though are focused on social good in some way, largely non-profit but some of them are for-profit B-corps like you, that are trying to do social impact in their own way. But all of them are committed a mission, transforming lives, social change, and to your point, changing the landscape. And I like to say that for DEI initiatives, it's the DDE and the I, it's the diversity, the equity, and the inclusion, and we attack all three of those in all of our talent solutions. So I'll pause there because I'm sure you have a lot of other questions for me, but that's the Edgility origin story. And for me, I've just always had the through line of social impact, wanting to make good happen, wanting to do it in a smart and strategic way and trying something that hasn't been done before.

    Carrie Fox:

    Well, I really appreciate that origin story and it makes a lot of sense. The how you go about your work because of your own experience. And what I appreciated about it is there are so many people who go through their entire career looking for their purpose, trying to identify what is my purpose. And many hope that at some point that purpose will become clear. What I love about your story is you knew your purpose, you had that aha moment and you built your career and your business around it. And what a special thing that is to have done that and done that successfully. That you get to live out that purpose every day. And what I'm realizing is that's probably the gift that you give many people. Is that you're working with people who are thinking about their next move, who are purposeful in those, wherever they're trying to get to and you're the matchmakers helping making that happen. So that's a pretty special job you get to do.

    Christina Greenberg:

    It really is and I think the thing that's been most special to me over the last five to seven years, is then also getting to do that internally with my team. So I think my team will tell you I love the external work, client work. I still do some client projects which given I'm managing a client services team of 30 people, $8 million a year right now, I'm probably crazy. I mean people told me, "You're going to have to give up client work" and I don't. I still work with a handful of clients because I love that work. I joke with my husband, my retirement plan is to do a couple of projects at a time, probably and definitely. So I love that work, but I also really love developing and mentoring people which is something I didn't know 15 years ago, before I had teams.

    Carrie Fox:

    Right.

    Christina Greenberg:

    I love thinking about how can I get this person to the next place in their career, to live their brilliance, to experience what they love. Hopefully with me along the way, but sometimes experiencing what they love and living their purpose is also leading us. And that's great because they've gotten hopefully amazing skills and experiences with us. And I have folks that have left Edgility that have come back to me, multiple folks and said, "Wow, thank you so much for all you gave me and supported me and lent to me." And that means so much, as much as it does the people that are here today. And so I think I love that purpose-driven piece for clients and external people, and I also love building it and the people that work with me.

    Carrie Fox:

    Right. Wow. Well, there's two topics that you've already started to preview that we want to get into today. One is the up-skilling and supporting the team, and the other is the succession planning and they're pretty closely linked. So there was an NPR story just not too long ago that talked about the boomerang CEO. So let's start on succession planning and then we'll talk about the other element around up-skilling. This boomerang, CEO, for those who are listening, I suspect that might be a term that you've heard but the Bob Iger, the Michael Dell, the Howard Schultz who Bob Iger back at Disney, Michael Dell back at Dell and Howard Schultz back at Starbucks, that it wasn't the plan that they were going to come back to the CEO role but they have all found themselves back in that role for some interesting reasons.

    And it sounds like Christina, this is a pretty big part of your work that you're helping organizations think about how do they meaningfully succession plan far enough in advance that the person who's going to step down doesn't come back a few years later. So again, this season we're talking about the issues that are keeping people up at night, and this is a tough one. For the founders who are listening, for the CEOs who are listening, how they start to extract themselves from that role and ensure the future success of their organization. So I'd love to hear from you a bit on this topic.

    Christina Greenberg:

    Yes. I mean, Carrie, there's so much to say on this topic, and I think I told you earlier, I'm also a podcast junkie, and probably not surprisingly, for someone that started my career in the entertainment industry and politics in LA as a PoliSci major, I'm obsessed with this topic around how does this work in the private sector? How does it work in the public sector? How does it work across organizations? So as I think about it, there are a few things that I would point out. The first is, you're exactly right that we need a succession plan and not enough organizations do it. And what that requires is it requires a lot more than just saying, "Here's this person, they're my successor." First of all, you need more than one because you never know what's going to happen. Bob Iger picked up Bob Chepeck, he was running the parks division. They thought he would be great.

    I don't know enough by Disney to know why that didn't work, but it didn't. And he came back to Disney and what I've heard on news reports, and again, I'm not an expert and I have no sources internally, at Disney, but is that there isn't a natural successor at this point. That's part of why he just signed on for more time. So you need a plan A, B, and C, is the first thing. You can't rely on one person. The second thing I would say and I've seen this in my business mentoring and grow in leaders, you don't always know who's going to be ready for that next step until they're really trying the things that are going to be required. I've had folks in my organization that I thought, "Wow, this person is a successor to XYZ role." Sometimes I was right, sometimes I was wrong, and I didn't know until I gave them those concrete experiences and opportunities to show me what they could do that I actually knew if they were right for the role or not. So it's also that...

    It's not predetermined and it's really about experiences and it's about an intentional focus on where are you today. Where you need to be to get to that next level, whatever that is in our organization or in your career. What are the concrete experiences I need to give you to give that you're ready and what are the ways that we're going to know if you've been successful or not and what's that feedback loop. And I think organizations don't do that at their peril because you get into trouble. And there are a couple of anecdotes. One cautionary, one positive that I would give to this particular element. One of them is I have an organization, I worked with them probably five or six years ago initially to help them place an executive director. We found the person, they hired the person, they thought he was best for the role. He came in though with the board knowing there were a couple of key places that he had gaps.

    I said to them in the process, "Hey, we've done a really thorough selection process. We've used a competency aligned scorecard. We know exactly who this person is. We've done reference checks, we've met with him, we've given him activities to demonstrate, we know exactly where he is and exactly where he needs support and you need a plan to support him in these areas. A concrete strategic plan." They said, "Yep, we got it." Two and a half years later, I get a call from them, "We're really frustrated with our executive director. We have to let him go. He has not improved in these three areas." And I said, "What have you done to support him in those three areas?" Crickets. They were busy, they didn't have time, they didn't have the resources. They ignored my advice which people can ignore my advice. I mean, it's up to them.

    And that to me was devastating. Here is a man of color who was put in the role, knowing he had gaps who was not given the support he needed and was not necessarily being successful in the role but had not been given what he needed to be successful. So there's a piece of this and that's an anecdote about an executive director specifically. But that happens at all levels of C-level leadership and below where we say to this person, we want you to do X, Y, Z but we don't actually assess exactly where they are and give them what they need to get there. So that was a failing and they didn't have anyone below. And so they had to redo the search from scratch. It was obviously very costly to do two searches which personal nonprofit, a search fee is no small. It's pretty significant in their budget.

    Carrie Fox:

    Right.

    Christina Greenberg:

    As well as the community turmoil of having turnover. And they had to go through that and they had, again, a man of color that was excited to serve the community, actually represented the community who was not able to be successful because of that. The second example though, and again this is a really shining positive example, is about a year and a half ago, I got a call from a really large major national nonprofit organization saying, "We have a CEO opening. Our CEO is actually taking a really prominent role in government and so he's leaving." But in that case, they said, "We have two people that we feel as a board, are really legitimate candidates. We actually don't want to do an external search at this time. We want to talk with our internal people, see what we think but we feel pretty confident. And if those two people aren't one of them, we also have two or three other people that we think are possible too. Can you run a process for us?" And so I did.

    I designed and ran a competency online selection process. Those were both women of color succeeding a white male CEO. He'd been very intentional about building a bench among his C-suite and giving them the experiences they would need to be successful. The board selected one of them. She's doing amazing. She's grown their budget and their staff, she's taking them in this whole new strategic direction that's super exciting. So she's doing great work. And the other woman didn't get that role, but a year and a half later took a CEO role for another really prominent organization. So that was a success story. And what did that take? That took that CEO, first of all saying, "I'm a white man, I don't want to be succeeded by a white man. So what can I do internally to build leadership within?" And then saying, "What are the experiences I need these folks to get to know that they're ready and what can I do to assess them on a regular basis to see if I think they're legitimate successors to me?"

    Carrie Fox:

    Right.

    Christina Greenberg:

    That's really... So I think those are really great examples of this and I see that in my own work where Allison and I, I mean our leadership team below us are all folks of color and we really feel strongly about how can we mentor and grow them and build their muscle, whether it's to stay with us or to go long-term to where they need to go.

    Carrie Fox:

    Right. Well, you're touching on that intersection of all of the shows we do which is the role that communications plays and how executives communicate both, in terms of the words that they're using but also the actions they take, to support and foster the long-term viability and success of their organization. And I love the balance between those two stories though, the learning from what didn't work and the learning from what did work and making sure that those who are listening are thinking about that pro-activeness that is really required. You said something to me earlier when we were talking that when most folks start the succession planning process, it's already too late. So tell me a little more how you counsel your clients and how you think about when is then the right time to start having succession conversations?

    Christina Greenberg:

    Right. You're exactly right because a lot of folks will come to us on the search side and Edgility does beyond searches. We do compensation design and talent management, organizational design. So we're really a full service talent agency for our clients. And when folks come to us on the search side and they say, "Okay, I've got a search, what am I going to do?" You're right, it's too late. And even a year probably isn't enough time unless you have folks that are really close. So what we can do is just going back again, and I'm a broken record on this but going back to competencies and expectations. What are we needing from folks at each level of our organization? We do that through doing really strategic talent management planning and competency design with clients. So going in deep and saying, "What is required at each level of your organization to be successful? What are the markers that we will see to know someone's reached that level or not? And what are the concrete development experiences we think they need to have or skills they need to develop to be ready for that next stage?

    And ideally, you're doing this quarterly with your folks and in a minimum at least once or twice a year where you're doing a full assessment of where they are on that pipeline. And then as you get to the upper ranks, and it's actually succession planning applies to all levels of your organization. My assistants, administrative assistants coming in, and I have particular affinity for them because I started my career as an administrative assistant. I know that job. They're coming in as our future associates and analysts and consultants and even principals and associate partners and partners and beyond. And so how are we at each stage assessing where folks are and where they need to grow? And sometimes too, people come to me and say, "Hey, Christina, that next job, I don't know if that's the job for me."

    And that's also part of it too. What is the next role in our organization? If that isn't the role, then we're having proactive conversations about is there another role internally that might be the role for you? Is it that we're actually going to think about other options or new pathways that might open up in an org like ours, it's growing. We often have new pathways. Or is it that we're going to acknowledge maybe there won't be a role for you in a year or two when you're ready for the next thing. And I'm going to support really as well as I can. I'm going to support you and mentor you, so you're ready for an external role. But it's that constant monitoring of where folks, where do they need to be, what are the experiences they need and then getting them there. And at the leadership levels, that experiential piece is so important. Exposure to boards, exposure to the things that they're going to need to be able to do to be successful.

    Carrie Fox:

    You're touching on something really important that's been a long time question of mine, which is CEOs, founders are very good at being the visionary. They are very good at thinking a few steps ahead where they need to be, how they're going to navigate through difficult moments. Often, they're in that role for that reason because they're very good at that skill set. They're not necessarily always also good at the people management and the shepherding and the mentoring. Sometimes, you'll find that person who can do both well but what I'm hearing from you is many folks don't actually get the level of training and skilling that they need in those upper levels to be able to do both of those things well. So how are you helping organizations and individuals close those gaps that I suspect are probably pretty rampant throughout a lot of organizations?

    Christina Greenberg:

    Yeah. So we do training. So one thing is training and executive coaching with leaders and with C-level teams and with boards, both formal and informal. Sometimes it's informal as a part of a larger engagement. We actually also do formalized coaching and training elements. So we'll do a manager training where we sit down with all managers in the organization and say, "Let's look at the competencies required at these different levels of people you're managing, and let's talk about how are you going to measure someone's success and what are the experiences you're going to need to give them?" And we're both delivering training as well as facilitating internal dialogue and alignment around those issues so that the managers are also... When I facilitate, I feel like the content is really important but sometimes more of the magic is the discussion in the room that happens because of the facilitative space that you design.

    And so there's that, just having people have these conversations and calibrating, "Oh, I thought for this consultant role, these are the core competencies. I was thinking this was the core development experience. Okay, we need to get aligned." And so pushing each other's thinking in that way. And then we also do personalized executive coaching with board members and senior leaders, specific around this question of succession planning or around managing and monitoring people or around looking at your organizational structure. What are the roles you think you're going to need in three years and do you have the pipeline internally to get there? And if not, what's your plan? And you're still going to need to hire externally sometimes. I'm not going to be Pollyanna and say, "You're always going to have talent from within." But ideally, you're bringing in external talent for new ideas, for new expertise, to broaden maybe your perspectives and not because you have to because you don't have anyone internally. And so the goal is that you're building a structure where you can do both.

    Carrie Fox:

    Wow, that's fantastic. Well, you and Allison would be very happy to hear. Shout out to my chief operating officer, Bridget Pooley, who really led our team in putting together a set of core competencies and rolling those out earlier this year tied to our pay equity and transparency, new process that we've unveiled. And Christina, it has been such a well-received process because it gives language and guidance to so much of that grayness that often exists inside a workplace of, "What do I really need to do to get from here to here" and to remove some of the subjectivity that I think is often also in workplaces to make sure that there are different learners, different leaders, different managers, but that core competencies can really help to normalize some of those success metrics.

    Christina Greenberg:

    Yeah. No, for sure. And I also think to your point, we're all people and some of this is just human-centered design. Some of it's trial and error. I was not the manager five years ago that I'm today and hopefully I'll be even better five years from now. And I think it's just the other thing is that self-awareness and just continually looking at ourselves and our practice is just important for managers that this is for individuals. So I think... But having said that, to your point, when things are clear and transparent and folks understand what's coming, even if there's some uncertainty baked into being a social impact org, they feel much more settled and secure and then they're able to feel safe to grow and learn and push themselves.

    Carrie Fox:

    All right. So we're going to double down on that because we are coming to the end already. I've got one more question for you before I turn it back to you to help us wind down, but there's a lot of folks who are listening right now that I probably imagine are saying, "This is resonating really deeply with me but what do I do now? This feels overwhelming, all the steps I need to take to prepare for these next steps." What are some of the next steps? If you were to ground folks in where to go from here, where would you suggest they go first?

    Christina Greenberg:

    I totally understand. Yeah, I think we just hired a new VP of finance and we outlined what we need to do to get ready for next year and all these different areas. And he is like, "This is a lot." So yes, it can be a lot. You have to break it into bite-sized chunks for sure. So I think the first piece is just starting to look at what's required in our organizations. What does success mean? What does success mean overall? What does success mean at different levels? What do the skills and experiences needed at different levels of the organization? I think you have to start there because you can't build anything until you know what you're building towards. Our educators in the room will know, kids need to know the standards before they can try and meet them. So we need to start from that. That's a fundamental place. And then once we have that, then it's really saying, "Okay, what is the system?" And there are lots of systems out there and the most important thing is it works for you. But what's the system for on a regular basis, evaluating people.

    First of all, placing people where they are on those different competencies or levels, and then how do we evaluate their success and performance and ability to be where they are and their success in where they are. And then the next piece is, and then what are the markers that we would need to see to know that they could go to the next thing or they were ready for the next level, whatever it is. And then you have to coach and support your managers in doing that. So there's a share point compensation layers into this and other pieces layer into this as well. And then once you've done that as an organization, at the same time in parallel, you're building your staffing plan hopefully aligned to your strategic plan, your growth plans or your goals and looking and saying, "How do these two match up? How does who I have today match against who I'm going to need in three years?" And then sort of starting to build that plan.

    But I think you just have to start from the fundamentals of what do we need and where are people today and then build from there.

    Carrie Fox:

    And the good news, there's folks like you who can help guide them through the process too.

    Christina Greenberg:

    Exactly. And whether even... I mean, I'll just say, Carrie, I love talking with people about these things. I love nerding out, as does my team. So if anyone has questions about it too, they can contact us at Edgility. And it's not even like they have to hire us for an engagement. I'm also happy to just chat and give them ideas.

    Carrie Fox:

    You are so full of knowledge, Christina and really such a great guide to this conversation because these are big, complicated conversations and whether we set it today or not, there's a lot of ego that's tied up in that. It's hard for a founder or CEO to start to say, "This place needs to operate without me and I'm going to start to hand over the reins." One of the things that NPR said in that story was that, "They literally need to turn over the keys to the kingdom." And that can be really hard to do. But what you've clearly outlined for us is that the benefit of doing that can really set the tone for the long-term success of an organization.

    Christina Greenberg:

    Yeah, for sure. Well, and we could do a whole other podcast Carrie about founders transitioning. I mean, as someone who's done searches for so many years, I've done a lot of... And there's a whole nother element around founders transitioning and that piece of it. So maybe that's a future podcast we'll do together.

    Carrie Fox:

    Last question, something you'd like to leave the audience with, either something that's giving you hope or something that you'd like to pass along before we wrap up this conversation?

    Christina Greenberg:

    I mean, what gives me hope every day is just the promise of social change externally that I see in our clients working so hard and the commitment to doing great work internally I see for my people. As someone who's solidly in the Gen X generation, I think it's easy for us to wonder about future generations. And I'll tell you, I work with folks who are anywhere from 20 plus years younger than me to less so. And they are hopeful and they're committed to social change and they're excited about what's coming next. And so, it gives me hope is really that there's so many folks out there wanting to make good happen in the world. And I think what I would just tell people about this process, it's hard and daunting and scary but just take it bite-size pieces. You don't have to do everything overnight. Start with one step and then go to the next. Just communicate with your people where you are and where you're going, and everyone will be along for the ride.

    Carrie Fox:

    Fantastic conversation and great place to leave us. Thanks Christina Greenberg and Edgility for all you do and for a great conversation today.

    Christina Greenberg:

    Thank you. Take care, Carrie. Thank you.

    Carrie Fox:

    Today's show is brought to you by Edgility Consulting, your compass for building equitable organizations where all staff thrive. Their talent management experts empower you to break free from traditional hiring, compensation, and talent management norms that often perpetuate inequality and prevent you from hiring and retaining great staff. Put your values to work, act on equity, visit EdgilityConsulting.com. That's E-D-G-I-L-I-T-Y, EdgilityConsulting.com and talk to a consultant about upgrading your talent systems to attract and retain top talent and ensure equity at your organization today.

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